Steve Sedgall's Farmboy (not quite finished yet)

Here's an e-mail and photos I received from Steve on April 20, 2011

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Hi,
     I thought I would share with 2 pictures of my Farm Boy which I have just finished. It has run for about 10 minutes and now it s going to stripped and painted. I am very pleased with the results and it was a joy to work with such detailed and accurate drawings. I am looking forward to deciding on  my next Jerry Howell project.

Kind Regards

Steve Sedgall
UK

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steve,

looks real nice,i am in the process of putting mine together. did you use the spark saver on yours?what are you using for fuel?i assume that on the crank bushing that the flange goes on the inside correct?thanks for the pics i will post mine when done. i have also build jerrys powerhouse and it was easy to build and runs real good. thanks

toolmaker

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Here's another e-mail from Steve:
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Hi Allen,
Here is a link to a video of the first time my engine ran. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV9yEF8nq2g

Steve Sedgall
Toolmaker ER

Alan Whiter's "Vickie"

Here's an e-mail I received from Alan Whiter on March 25, 2011:

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HI
Have just finished the Vickie Engine but with a small burner flame it would not drive the fan so I added a flue which added the extra heat required, it now runs extremely well and is much admired by all.

I have also ordered the super stirling fan for my next project and hope to eventially construct the Farm boy and Howell V twin engines.

The drawings are exceptional and construction notes excellent.

Regards

Alan Whiter

V-4 Distributor Miter Gear Source

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A SUPPLIER FOR THE 15 TOOTH 48 PITCH MITER GEAR SET FOR THE V-4. THE SUPPLIER WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SMALL PARTS.COM. AS PER THE LATE MR.HOWELL, HOWEVER THEY NO LONGER HANDLE THEM. I CAN'T SEEM TO FIND A SUPPLIER, CAN ANYBODY CLUE ME IN ?       

REGARDS TURTLEHEAD

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Here's what Jerry recommended to me via email when I asked him that question.

"The Stock Drive gears Part Number A 1B 4-Y48015 will work. I don't
know what the cost is.  

wmberg.com has 72 pitch stainless gears that are more precision,
but they cost $65.00 plus $15.00 shipping.  Part Number M72N-7S

I will probably get these a little later on when I make a 1-1/4" diameter
distributor for the V-Fout because they are far more precision than
the Small Parts or the SDP gears. 

Regards,

Jerry Howell"


 As above he suggests "Stock Drive Products" as a source of the original gears. You should be able to find your local distributor for them from their website.

The 72 pitch gears Jerry mentions are larger in diameter than the originals and are not a direct replacement.
Since I was making the V8, my distributor had to be designed larger in diameter (I chose 1-1/2") else the spark towers would be too close together so I re-designed the whole distributor with a larger tower diameter to accommodate them. Very expensive though, but they provide almost no backlash in the rotor which I guess should result in more accurate timing.

Sage

New Intake Design by Dave Sage

On my V8 version of Jerry's V4 I had trouble with a water leak under the temporary intake manifold I constructed. I decided to split the two functions. As you'll see in the pictures I have two water inlets in the V8 so I made a long block to carry the water and added four 2-56 screws around each water inlet to pull the block down onto the O-rings in the block. This makes it independant of the intake. The intake can be removed (since it is still experimental in my case) without having to get involved with the water.
 My new intake is made from bent stainless tubing - the same tubing and bender was used as the headers and the 90deg bends just fit. The whole assembly is silver soldered together. The carburetor is screwed onto a plate which is then screwed onto the stainless intake chamber. This will allow me to change carburetors if required by fabricating a new plate to suit the carb to be installed.
 I can highly recommend separating the water funtion from the intake manifold function. This will also keep the intake charge cool instead of it being heated by the water.

Terry Mayhugh's fabricated exhaust manifolds

Here are some pictures of the exhaust manifolds that I just completed for my V-4. I machined this from billet and then glass-beaded them to give them a 'cast' look. In another thread I showed how I created the intake manifolds from two identical halves, but I felt the exhaust manifolds needed to be machined from a single workpiece due to the extreme temperatures to which they would be exposed. I started with a suitably sized rectangular workpiece and then it it I drilled the long exhaust runner. I then drilled the two short runners as far as I could before the angle into the block flange became too acute. I then pressed plugs into the short runners to a depth such that half of the diameter of the long runner would be closed off. I also pressed pins into these plugs where the wall the manifold itself would eventually be as a safety measure to help secure the plug. Plugs and pins were also secured with high temperature bearing retainer. I then re-drilled the long runner to clear out the remnants of the two short runner plugs. I used a spherical D-bit to blend the long runner with the far-end short runner. I then machined the the top of the manifold and then flipped it over to mill the backside. This is where things get tricky. Finish machining the backside will cause the part to drop free before the machining is completed and so before starting the backside machining I epoxied the already top-side machined part to a plate that was secured to the workpiece with a number of screws. This kept the part stable after it was cut free from the workpiece and allowed me to do all the back side machining. After both sides were completed I heated the epoxy up to 200F and it released easily from the workpiece. Essentially no clean-up was needed and so I needed only to drill out the short runners from the block flanges to connect the runners to the already drilled portions. I then bead-blasted the parts to make them look cast. Two months of development work and about 4 hours of machining time per manifold. I'm glad its over but I'm happy with the result. -Terry

Dave Sage's "Howell V8"

I finally finished the V8 version of Jerry's V4.
I haven't run it yet. I thought I'd post some pictures before it scatters around the shop.
It's hard to believe it's been three years or so in construction. I hope it runs.
The intake manifold is a prototype since I'm not sure how many carburetors it will require. I can add more or move them around by simply making a new top plate for the manifold.
Weather permitting, I'll bring it to Cabin Fever in a couple of weeks.
Enjoy !

Dave Sage

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Really nice job. I'm working on the V4 and currently machining a set of intake and exhaust manifolds for it since I don't have the casting kit. I've finished the intake manifold and the exhaust manifolds are also nearly finished. I plan to be at Cabin Fever and hope to see you there.

Terry Mayhugh

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Yes Terry I saw your post and pictures of the intake manifold you made. Nice work, you must be very CNC savy. I know I had quite a time getting the height above the block for the water passage connection, the angle of the runners and their connection to the heads, and getting them to all come together at the same time.

The manifold I have is a temporary outfit. The top plate comes off so I can make a new one to accomodate more carbs. Below the plate is just a big cavity to act as a runner.

 I'm pretty sure I'm going to need more than one carb but I started there. I made 6 carbs while I was set up to make them. Some for future projects I'm sure.

I really hope the weather holds so I can get to Cabin Fever (from Toronto). Please look me up. I'll be looking for all the V4's - hopefully you'll bring yours along regardless of it's state of completion.

Dave

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The V8 is running ! 

And Yes I think it's going to need at least one more carb. If you look at Sherlines Craftsmanship Museum - Howell V4 build page, at the very bottom, you'll see the pictures and a video of the V8  running. Thanks to them for that. It's a really good page to look at just to get an understanding of what is involved in building the V4. 

Here's a direct link to the video

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/HowellV8.wmv

Still lots more work to do to get it to run better.

Sage

V4 Dimension (Error?) Question

Here's an e-mail from Patrick Lorenze.  I don't have an answer.  I'm sure Dad would have known, but in his absense, perhaps other V4 builders out there can assist:

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I believe there is an inconsistency on the dimensions on page #7 of the plans and I'd like to make sure I understand which one is correct before I cut the Block.  The Oil Cover recess on the bottom of the Block is dimensioned .290" from the Oil Cavity wall which puts it at ".045" and .172" from the ends of the Block.  The drawing shows these 2 dimensions as .032" and .186".  I have triple checked and even scaled the drawing with calipers and I believe the intent is to meet the .045 and .172 dimensions.  I attached a pdf of the CAD file I am making so that I can create the CAM program to cut it on my CNC Mill.


Thanks,
Pat

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Here is another way to look at what I am saying.

 

If the centerline shown for the oil cavity is also the centerline for the Oil Cover recess, then take the 1.540" dimension for the centerline......subtract half the width of the Oil Recess cavity (2.990"/2 = 1.495") .....and you get .045" .......not the .032" shown on sheet #7.

 

Hope this helps explain the concern.

 

Pat

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There  is/was a problem with the dimensioning in the drawing. I brought this to Jerry's attention in an email. He corrected it in later drawing sets and sent me an update. Jerry scanned the new drawing and sent a PDF to me. 

I have drawing set #66.

Somewhere there is a web link detailing all the revisions. Maybe Allen can make that known to you.

 Allen should probably send you new copies of the sheets that have changed since your copy version.

Here is a copy of the email message he sent me. There were a couple of other issues I mentioned as well.

This may be confusing. There are my comments followed by his response (s).

I hope this clarifies the problem for you.

Dave Sage

"A couple of issues with the V4 drawings – errors - maybe not  - but anomalies none the less:

On sheet #6 the dimension of .307 should be .305 otherwise adding up all the given dimensions across the block comes out to more than the overall dimension shown of 3.285. I’m not sure how this could happen on a CAD drawing. (rounding errors ?) 

    You are correct, it should be .305".

On sheet #6 the width of the head deck (top of the block) can be calculated as 3.285 minus .077 giving 3.208. On sheet 7 the same thing can be calculated as 2.990 + .175 + .032 giving 3.197 a fair difference (11 thou). Not a biggy but still perplexing given it’s CAD. 

          The .175" dimension should be .186" instead, but if the other dimensions are adhered to it is moot. Granted

           the dimension needs to be correct anyway, or else just not included. I use the CAD for design as well as

           for output of the drawings. Some of these dimension errors are remnants of multiple design changes where

           some affected item dimension corrections were missed. Also contributing is 69 year old gray matter! All 

           the above will be corrected for all future plan sets along with a couple on Sheet #16 as well. The 3.210" to 

           3.208" and 3.080" to 3.078" due to assumed .002" added to the .128" for cleaning up the mill

           marks from Step #3 thus the .130" dimension. See below.......

If you look at the pictures of the finished engine, the heads seems to overhang the block an obvious amount all around which looks good. But given the dimensions above and looking at sheet 22 and 20 there will be no overhang on the ends and only 60thou on the top and bottom. The head is drawn as 3.200 long (only 8hou or so different than the 3.208 or 3.197 above)? 

          You missed the .128" of material milled away (plus .002" for cleaning up the mill marks) all around the gear 

          case cover on the flywheel end of the block in Step #3 on Sheet #16. This brings the length of the cylinder banks 

          to 3.078". With the heads at 3.200" long, there is .061" of head overhang on each cylinder bank end. 

Thank you for pointing out the dimension errors. I always want to know about them so I can correct them.

Regards,

Jerry E. Howell"

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Dad did maintain a revisions page.  It is referenced on the last page of the plan sets we distribute.

Photos:

http://www.jerry-howell.com/V-4Construction.html

Revisions:

http://www.jerry-howell.com/V-4Revisions.html

Hope this helps...

Allen

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Thanks for the replies Dave and Allen.  I have plan set #188 and had already looked at the revisions page which shouldn't apply to the later set I have.  The dimensions still don't add up as I pointed out in my messages above.  I will do the best I can to figure out what makes most sense and go with that.

Dave.....Terry M. told me he saw you at the show with your V8 and said it was very cool. He also passed along some tips from your experiences which I appreciate.

Pat

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Pat:

Looks like you are correct. Those figures don't add up either. I didn't analyze your comment fully and just figured they were wrapped up in the complete block length issue I pointed out. As Jerry mentioned in his email - he probably changed something along the way and did not update all the incremental measurements. In any case it really makes little difference how big you make the opening as long as you keep it in mind when you make the cover. I would opt for enlarging the .032 measurement since .032 leaves a very thin edge between the recess and the outside of the block. I think mine is that thin and I'm always concerned with whacking it and bending or breaking it off.

Sage

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Yes Pat:

Terry and I had quite along discussion. It's too bad this forum did not exist earlier - or better yet ,Jerry was still around to discuss the issues with.

 I believe we discussed the combined intake manifold / water passage issue. Since I have a temporary intake at the moment, I've pretty much decided to make the water passage (which is twice as long for the V8) a separate block below the intake that can be screwed down to ensure the water connection to the block without the balancing act of having the O-rings seal AND the intake runners line up at the same time. The intake will then be made slightly higher to clear the water passage block.

 The other issue with the current design is that it is generally a no-no to heat the intake manifold and the intake charge. Although it helps to get off-the-choke when starting it usually hinders performance to have a hot fuel intake mixture later.

 I had problems Sunday afternoon with my engine at Cabin Fever. The epoxy let go on the flanges of my temporary intake, probably because of the extra pressure on them caused by compressing (in my case) two O-rings which caused a water leak. The water collected and threatened to go inside the block around the lifter bushing. I stopped running it and mopped up the water.

 I'll fix this up and post another topic with my results. Not sure what to do about an intake since I still haven't decided if I need two carbs or not. I'll probably make one like Terry's. I like his work.

Sage

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Sage,

Thanks for the feedback on the design and sharing some lessons learned from your build.  Terry has done the same for me.  The Internet is great isn't it!  I decided I will probably transfer all the designs into my 3D modeling package (Alibre which is compatible with Solidworks) to reconcile all the dimensions and part fit ups, adjust the dimensions to the best of my ability and then buld the parts.   

Pat

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I use Alibre as well, although I'm a rookie at it so I don't rely on it. I'm designing my new intake with it.

I do use AutoCad all the time for the simplist and since I'm building the V8 I've re-drawn a lot of the drawings to check dimesions resulting from the conversion to a V8.

I also use it a lot to solve trig problems. I find it easier to draw the problem and measure the unknown than to calculate and likely make errors.

Sage

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I use Alibre to calculate trig answers too.

The program is really powerful and if you stick with it (I recommend the tutorials) it will suddenly click and you'll be able to use it for all its 3D power effortlessly.  Doing the assemblies is very powerful as is creating the drawings with no additional effort from the 3D models you create.  I use it to keep myself honest and find errors before I make chips.  I'll stop now because this is starting to sound like a commercial.

Pat